Hi, my name’s Dave Nannery, and I’m a Purdue University and Faith Bible Seminary grad who has recently moved to British Columbia, Canada. As I continue my walk with the Lord, I thought I’d put up a blog to record what I’m learning from the Bible—to encourage me to take more time to meditate on the text. I also post whatever random thoughts pop into my head.
Hi, i think that i noticed you visited my site thus i came to “return the desireâ€.I'm attempting
I LOVE EVERYTHING I READ......... HOW CAN SOMEONE KNOW IF THE LOVE IS REAL OR NOT?
You're absolutely right. An interesting discovery I made today: Spending the whole day communing wit
[...] Jesus has come to conquer death, so don’t underestimate his authority (Mark 15:40
Most often i don't even realize when i act in pride. It's now getting to my nerves. I don't like it.
Thanks Caitlin!
I think that it is great that you are following the lord and Jesus, if I may could I recommend a ver
Hi my name is caitlin and I have been saved to, my dad is a Church of Scotland minister and I go to
So does this mean that you are a different person at church than in the real world? LOL
I’ll answer that question when you tell me why the church doesn’t fall into the category of “the real world”…
Silly Dave…Trix are for kids
What an awesome website. Tell the world that Jesus lives. Glory to the God of Grace
Victor KIng
Hi Dave, I stumbled on to your web site and have enjoyed browsing it. Lots of good stuff on it.
I note you had a recent minor bumper accident from one who struck your rear bumper.
I had the same thing happen to my 2001 Camry. a light pickup truck rear-ended me at a stop light. His front end fell apart. It looked totaled. My rear end was unscathed. Not even a scratch in the paint. Later I showed it to someone at my church, boasting in “not a scrath”. He suggested I have it checked at a body shop. It turned out there was a lot of damage under the car, well over $1000 worth. So had it repaired and the other guy’s insurance paid.
God bless you and may He greatly use you for His glory throughout your life. You’re just starting. At age 75, I’m about wrapping it up, though I’m still pastoring. I love HIs Word. It has been my life-long passion to preach it practically.
I’m far more Calvinistic than when I first began preaching; however, I don’t sweat the stuff I don’t understand. Instead, like Paul in Romans 11:33-36 I just break into a doxology of praise over my unsearchable, unfathomanable God.
I’m still married to my sweetheart, after 53 years of marriage. We have three grown sons and daughter, each married to godly spouses. We have eleven grandkids, all living for the Lord. Yesterday I learned I am going to be a great-grandfather in January, Lord willingl
Mal Bicker mgbpjb@msn.com
As I peruse your site, I notice you seldom speak for yourself. In your critique’s of others, you site “other” theologians to defend your position. You are claiming omniscience since you know which theologians are correct and which one’s are not. Simply put, like many who have relationships with books other than with Christ, your training has given you a paradigm and from that you only look for things that reinforce your already established belief system. What if Grudem or Packer are wrong, how would you know? Jesus said I am the Truth. Know Me and you will by virtue of My life know what true, objective truth is. This is Christ’s claim. You are called to know Jesus with your heart, not just your head.
Jesus is a real person, not a script on a page. Get to know Him personally, like a friend, and you will know what is true and what is false. You won’t need man to intrepret God’s word, God will do that for you.
J.Brock
“As I peruse your site…”
Please allow me to be blunt, Joe—you didn’t “peruse” my site. It’s obvious that the only article you’ve read is my critique of Andrew Wommack’s “Spirit, Soul, and Body” article (an analysis in which I appealed almost entirely to scripture, by the way). Rather than judging someone you know next to nothing about, I’d encourage you to read some of my devotions and reflections. Then, if you are still convinced that I don’t really know Jesus personally, at least your opinion will be based on evidence, not assumptions.
I did look over your site and like your comment; it tends to generate more heat than light. You believe what you believe because you were taught to believe this way. You are obviously an intelligent, well-read young man. Nevertheless, as I did look over your sight, you engage Christianity from a theological starting point and much of what I read simply follows. The things you reject do not “fit” your perception of Christianity; this is why you reject them. Do you believe what you believe because you believe it or because your initial and continued subjection to Christendom carried a certain slant and that is all you have ever known? Were you saved in a Baptist church? I ask because if so, what you were taught was Baptist thought. If you continued down this path, all you have ever known then was what you were originally shown. I see a lot of intellectual stuff but nothing original. You seem very bright, how about something without an obvious denominational overtone and something truly from YOUR heart. What is GOD saying to you?
J.B.
Joe, with all due respect, I’m not sure who you’re talking to. It isn’t me. I’m not the guy you’re describing. I wasn’t raised Baptist, I wasn’t saved in a Baptist church, and I arrived at my theological conclusions independently from Baptist doctrine—I got them straight from the Bible. In fact, I disagree with most Baptists on several theological issues.
Is there a lot of intellectual stuff on my blog? There is some, but most of my posts are about what I’m personally learning from scripture—which IS what God is saying to me. (The Bible is God’s Word, is it not?) I’ve detailed how I struggle with sin and weakness and how I am encouraged by God’s promises. I haven’t the foggiest idea what more you expect me to say—nor do I have any interest in meeting your unstated demands.
To be frank, I think you need to repent of pride in foolishly accusing and judging someone you know next to nothing about. You seem to be utterly blind to the fact that you, too, are carrying a great deal of presupposition into this conversation. I’m praying for God to open your eyes. But please understand that I’m not interested in any more discussion as long as you continue writing “words without knowledge.”
I have been listening to Andrew Wommack for a few months now and found your site via googleing (sp) him. I figure at least 20% of everything I believe right now is dead wrong. I’m just trying to figure out which parts. I’m going to start researching more in regards to spirit and soul for my own benefit. Thanks for the challenge.
For the record I have literally laughed out loud reading some of the comments people leave you. They take you way out of context. I found in my own coversations that people get angry when they are not secure in what they believe. Or simply their belief system is based in emotion and not logic. You have certainly pissed some people off. It’s been a pleasure.
BTW Dark gets a 3.5 and freaking Wall-e gets a 4!!!!!! There is something wrong with you. lol I liked Wall-e but come on.
sorry I meant to type “Dark Knight”…
Thanks for the encouragement, Josh. And as far as movie rankings go…they’re completely subjective. So there.
Hi Dave,
I was reading your article on your stand against “Spirit, Soul and Body”. by Andrew Wommack
From what I read, I conclude that you believe that its just our body and soul which includes mind, so does that mean, we are limited to our mental intellectual abilities… we are only as far as we can understand and grow with our mind… that sounds a bit limiting……One doesnt perceive things with our mind…. we sense it from our spirit.
With all due respect to your mental, intellectual understanding of theological terms of dichotomy, trichotomy and hexachotomy and yes metaphysics and etc etc…. I believe there is a Spiritual Dimension to what the Word says…. when it says Spirit and Soul….. From my understanding …..Hinduism speaks of only Body and Soul and makes no distinction between Soul and Spirit….
Frankly speaking I feel you are just impressive with your theological high sounding words…. but then the Atheist Scientists do the same thing…. talking big words… but going nowhere….
I hope in all that you are doing, you heart intentions are right and not self-impressive and self-promoting, and also not motivated from defending a denomination
God Bless you brother.
In Christ
http://www.bornagaintoday.com
Hello Dave,
It’s good to see there’s another Nannery seminarian.
Here’s an article I wrote while in the seminary in New York and a TV segment I did with one of my brother seminarians prior to the Holy Father’s visit this past spring.
Good luck with your studies and ministry.
YBiJ,
Matt
http://www.icseminary.edu/html/news2.htm
Hi Robert, I do believe that it’s just body and soul, but the soul is more than just the intellect. It’s not all rational thought going on there. Also, you’ll notice from my post that I based what I said on the Bible rather than philosophical arguments or personal preference (which, unfortunately, I see you doing here). Like anyone who has to deal with these theological concepts in depth, I use words like “dichotomy” simply as a shorthand; I certainly hope they’re not impressing anyone.
Thanks for your honest and patient response.
Joh 13:35 Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are My disciples.”
I’ve known Jesus now for thirty-one years. My doctrines, knowledge of Him, and understanding of His word have changed over those years and I hope for the better. But the most important thing God has shown me is that as important as possessing correct knowledge and doctrines are, those things are not as important to God as something else. Paul says knowledge puffs up but love builds up and even if we possessed all knowledge, it would be meaningless without love. There is a story that says in the latter years of the life of the Apostle John that he spoke very seldom but one thing, “children love one another”. He would repeat the phrase over and over to everyone he met. One day a young man asked him why he was always saying this and nothing else. John’s response was, “because it was the Lord’s command and if we would do but this one thing, it would be enough.”
1Jn 3:22 And we will receive from Him whatever we ask because we obey Him and do the things that please Him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment: We must believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
I am confident that God will keep you in Him and continue to perfect you in every way, just as He has done me. I write this to you hoping you will avoid some of the errors I’ve committed over the years. I want to encourage you to never forget or lose sight of what it’s all about, what I now believe means the most to God.
Gal 5:6 For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love.
If I had only asked myself before I acted or spoke, “Is what I’m fixing to say or do expressing faith in love?, I would of avoided many wrongs. Keep the faith my young brother in Christ and love and love and love some more.
Dave,
I have only read your Shack review and the posts here, so I am no Dave expert, but I like what I have read. I am writing to share a thought with you about the classic diversion about “generating more heat than light.”
When I get that remark I ask if the benefits described in Proverbs 27:17 come from the heat or the light…
Blessings,
Shane
Whoa. I read what that “Joe Brock” wrote. Reminded me of when I was in my first year of Bible school and we were, as freshmen, accused and talked about viciously, as “those worldly freshmen who have no religious appearance” by those who had no knowledge of our relationship with God and just went by a fragment of our life observed. Weird how people do that.
As your auntie, I can vouch for your Heinz 57 religious upbringing….! (your dad being originally Roman Catholic and your mom brought up in the Foursquare/United Church/Christian and Missionary Alliance churches – and your dad being an on and off again minister in various denominations in both Canada and the USA)
Which brings the question to mind – how did you get involved in a Baptist church??? :^@
Haha, thanks for the vouching. Actually, Dad was (and is) a preacher in Baptist churches as well, so it really isn’t at all strange that I would end up in one!
Hi, I came across this blog while I was doing some research concerning trichotomy. You might be interested to know that Cardinal Henri De Lubac has written on that subject. I am currently working on a essay and think that although some Greek speculative notions can be found in trichotomy, nevertheless it originates from within a Christian dialogue. It might be a good idea to listen to what De Lubac is trying to say.
)
Peace
http://jantoine.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/body-soul-and-spirit/
Hi Dave!
I came across your blog entry about Wommack’s spirit, soul and body while I was looking for threads/discussions about Wommack on the internet.
I have a huge problem. I have been listening to Wommack for a few years now. I am mainly interested in healing cause I also needed healing. I thought that what Andrew teaches about healing and faith sounds plausible and he also has a lot of healing testimonies on his website. I thought to myself why should he be dishonest about them and make all these things up? This makes no sense and it would be really sick to lie about that.
But at the same time I am also worried about falling for a false teacher and then getting messed up.
I just found a video on youtube where somebody
attacks Wommack and shows parts of Wommack’s show where Wommack really says a lot of strange things. A few of the things sound weird but I think it’s also the perspective.
For example I went to wommack’s site and read about what wommack means with “men created satan” and I understand now what he means. he means that satan got his power over the earth when adam and eve sinned.
but there are other things which wommack said which are clrealy not correct. wommack says God
spoke everything into existence including adam and eve but this is not true. the bible says in genesis 2:7
that God FORMED adam.
Now I’m really confused and don’t know what to do.
What is the right reaction?
Does this mean that I have to completely
dismiss Wommack as false teacher and also everything he ever said about healing?
Whenever I think I have found a good teacher it doesn’t take long and then I come across something weird and dont know what to do then.
how can i tell wether the other stuff which wommack says about healing and faith is true? it sounds plausible
and it cannot simply be falsified like the stuff which he said about adam being spoken into existence.
do i start from scratch now or what? but even if i wanted i cannot erase my memory. everything i have heard
and learned is in there and influences my perception. i could not even read the bible “objectively” again because
of everything i have learned in the past.
what do I do now?
Hi Rick, thanks for reading! One of the difficulties with Andrew Wommack is that much of his teaching is good. The problem is that the good teaching is mixed together with a lot of dangerous stuff (as is the case with most false teachers).
It sounds to me like you are wanting to grow in discernment—the ability to distinguish truth from error. This isn’t something I can help you with in the space of a few words; it’s a lifelong process of studying God’s Word. “Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way” (Psalm 119:104).
One of the best ways to gain discernment is to observe how a reliable teacher of God’s Word studies it. A lot of good teachers are out there, but a good place to start might be the ministry of John Piper, Desiring God. There is an enormous amount of free resources there on a variety of subjects; in particular, take a look at his sermons to see how he works through passages of scripture. I think that as you compare the careful, God-honoring way Piper handles scripture with the careless, agenda-driven approach of Wommack, it will help you begin to understand how to study the Bible and gain discernment.
As far as whether the healing testimonies are real or not, I’m in no position to say yes or no. However, I find it very hard to trust someone who frequently handles the Bible with blatant dishonesty and disregard for what the text is actually saying.
Thanks for your questions, and I’m praying for your health and discernment as I write this.
Hi Dave!
Thank you for your advice and also thanks for praying for me.
God bless you,
Rick
This is in response to your article on Andrew Wommack’s teaching of Trichotomy.
It is clearly communicated in the NT that God lives inside of us. If we are still impure and defiled inside, how can God live in us?
He can only dwell and be one with something perfect, like Himself. That is His standard.
That’s the beauty of the gospel. Even though I screwed up X amount of times, by grace through faith, I’ve been redeemed. Not by anything I’ve done, but by what He did for me.
You saw in the OT how strict God was about the tabernacle. We are that tabernacle now, and if you believed in trichotomy, you would understand that your perfect spirit is that tabernacle that God is in union with.
This is just something for you to chew on. Take this to God with all of your heart. The knowledge of Jesus Christ we are to always be abounding and increasing in, isn’t head knowledge. It is the Holy Spirit who leads us into these truths, not man.
Hi Jesse, thanks for your comment. What is interesting is that in the New Testament, it is not the spirit that is the tabernacle or temple of the Holy Spirit, but the body! See 1 Corinthians 6:19. (Also note John 2:19–21.) So following your argument, how do you suppose it is possible that a holy God can dwell in the temple of a sinful body?
I don’t mean to start a whole debate on your visitors wall but:
John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
John 3:5-6 (New King James Version)
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
You response to the above scripture is:
“the passage is referring to the fact that we are not children of God by human descent (i.e. because we are Jews or Gentiles) but by the work of the Holy Spirit (see also John 1:9-13)”
I entirely agree. We were born once in the flesh, by our parents. Then we were born again, we were born again in the Spirit, by God. So, if flesh begets flesh. And Spirit begets spirit, how are we not spirits?
I think Jesus made it pretty clear. There is flesh, and there is spirit. The word spirit is not some cute metaphorical rhetoric, just like flesh isn’t.
According to Jesus, if we are born of the Spirit, we are spirit. End of story.
God would not begot something defiled, impossible. It is obvious that our minds, emotions, consciousness, psyche, etc. need some working on. God did not begot those things, and those things sure aren’t flesh. Flesh is flesh. Spirit is spirit. Those are concrete realities. What about everything else? That is why there must be another part to man, what is referred to as the soul.
Romans 12:2 says that our minds need to be renewed. Our spirits are fine, because they are begotten by God. He didn’t beget junk, so then if spirit and soul are the same, why do we need to change our thinking?
I say all this in love. You are my brother Dave and I’m not attacking you or accusing you of having some religious spirit or something. I’m doing my best to follow Christ and it seems to me you are too. So, may the Lord reveal to both of us more of the knowledge of Him, the only knowledge that matters.
And you got me on the temple thing.
And God can live in a sinful body because technically the body was crucified with Christ.
In the context of, “I sinned today”, we are sinners, just like someone who plays football is an athlete.
In the context of our relationship with God, we are holy and blameless before Him in love, accepted in the Beloved.(Eph. 1)
The later context is all that matters.
Thanks Jesse. I’m not really looking for a debate either, and this is definitely not the place for one. On the other hand, I don’t think you’ve really addressed the plain biblical statement that I made in my article—that the spirit can be defiled by sin, just like the flesh (2 Cor 7:1). Also, God made our (sinful) bodies as well as our spirits (Ps 139:13). It seems to me that the case for trichotomy is dependent more on tenuous theological arguments than plain biblical teaching, which tends to contradict it.
However, the main point of the article was less to oppose trichotomy and more to demonstrate the danger in Andrew Wommack’s approach to the Bible, so that people would be more careful about believing what he says. I’m glad to see that you are willing to carefully consider what the Word of God says, so even if we disagree, I believe it is for good reasons.
Thanks,
Dave
Amen Joe Brock! ” Jesus is a real person, not a script on a page. Get to know Him personally, like a friend, and you will know what is true and what is false. You won’t need man to intrepret God’s word, God will do that for you.”
Amen Alan! “There is a story that says in the latter years of the life of the Apostle John that he spoke very seldom but one thing, “children love one another”. He would repeat the phrase over and over to everyone he met. One day a young man asked him why he was always saying this and nothing else. John’s response was, “because it was the Lord’s command and if we would do but this one thing, it would be enough.”
I say take all the professional theologians, put them in a room and let them impress each other with their BS.
Interesting site. I find that on the Wommack critique there is an obvious “experience vs intellect” argument. Paul made it very clear that we are to be “transformed by the renewing of our minds”. Everyone who supported Wommack used experience as a criteria. Even when some used some scriptures to support their views they failed to use intellect as the basis for their argument. Experience is never the proof of salvation or if a teacher is correct. Scriptures and the mind are the only real way to properly support a Biblical view. Wommack talks about the New Testament as the important scriptures with his comment on “law of Liberty” in James. the New Testament had not been compiled at this time so James was speaking of the Old Testament in light of the correct perspective, Christ’s. Wommack falls very short in properly using the scriptures and those “saved” under Wommack’s ministry are not transforming their minds, only their experience.
Thank you for your article on Joseph Prince, I have recently, about the past few months, been hearing his sermons on cable television at 5 a.m. . I thought , wow, how refreshing this asian guy is! He preaches about Jesus Christ and from the New Testament about the Good News of redemption! It was comforting, and he is charismatic and confident in his presentation, but now that I understand more fully where he is coming from and that he is taking scripture out of context for personal aggrandizement, I now know what he really is. Still, if you listen to a portion of what he says, out of context, with tired , sleepy eyes, waking from a restless night and lousy unfullfilling sleep, it woke me up and gave me hope, out of context. I suppose that the Word of God is so powerful , that even a self-serving jerk like Pastor Prince ( what a name) still can serve to soothe a weary soul with even it’s partial message of hope. Taken out of context of course!
I first encountered your logical progression on why baptists are better than presbyterians on the puritan board (puritanboard.com, if your not familiar with it I would encourage you to become so) several months ago which was hilarious by the way! I forgot all about it until it was recently reposted with a link that I followed here. It was then that I realized that we are nearly neighbors and have some common acquaintances.
I live in West Lafayette and I served with Justin Hutts (one of your fellow seminarians at Faith) at Battle Ground Bible Church for about a year. Also I was a member of Faith for several years prior. Great people there and great learning environment.
However I am happy to say that I am now a presbyterian (sprinkling babies, we like sprinkles!) serving and worshipping at Immanuel RPC in the west side and attending Covenant Theological Seminary. I thought it was neat to have come to know about you this way and hope the best for you as God leads you in your studies and ministry.
Thanks Michael, it’s good to hear from you.
Neat that you know Justin…he is a great guy.
Are you doing distance education at CTS? I’m not one for putting sprinkles on
babiesdonuts, but to each his own!Yes, I am doing distance now and will be attending in the fall for my final year. It is a great school and it’s been a great experience so far!
I pray God’s blessing for your ministry. Have a blessed day.
Dave,
I encourage you to keep studying especially the Scriptures. As you get older and especially as you experience church and God’s people (especially as a pastor) there will be things that bring you comfort in the years ahead. I have learned that experts, professionals and even the theologians only do the best they can with what they have learned. Ultimately, God is the authority over all and His wisdom trumps all doctrine, all ideas and theories. This life requires us to work for our understanding of Him and you have to start somewhere.
“You have shown me the way of life, and you will fill me with the joy of your presence.” -Acts 2:28
Amy
I think that it is great that you are following the lord and Jesus, if I may could I recommend a very inspiring and crhistian book? It is titanic the Jhonn Harper version, Jhon Harper is a christian man who he and his daughter go on titanic (it is very true). In the last hours of his life he saves many people and turns them in the right direction of of God and Jesus.